I have blatantly stolen this topic from another board, I admit that, but it is interesting.

"If you had the knowledge and the cold, hard indisputable proof (in whatever form it may come in), would you disprove the existance of God?" Assume that if you had this proof, everyone would believe it.

If you did, you realize that a lot of people would have little-to-no reason to do what would be considered "good" anymore. Crime may skyrocket, suicides may become widespread and all too commonplace, depression following suit as well. Religion brings out a lot of good in people, but of course, it brings out a lot of bad as well.

What would happen if you could disprove the existence? What about those hard line believers? How would they respond if you did? Remember though, this is ANY God you are disproving, so not just "God" but also "Allah" and others. Or would you keep your mouth shut and keep things the way they are? Which is better?

Of course, I wouldn't let people believe silly stuff, as one smart guy said: "If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities."

But I wouldn't hang my hopes too high, people don't necessarily believe "irrefutable evidence" when it comes to this subject. (there's also a whole discussion if there is such thing as "irrefutable evidence")

As far for "crime may skyrocket, suicides may become widespread and all too commonplace..." I don't believe in God and I don't go about killing people and didn't commit suicide yet and I have no intention to do it in the future. For what I know maybe that would be a good thing at least there would be no suicide bombers (since there will not believe anymore in 77 virgins that will wait for them in Paradise) or in general people who kill or die in the name of God.

To add a quick side reply, considering the virgins only, not really to do with the God topic.. I watched a show last night on TV with a person performing. Not stand up comedy but an entire show, mighty nifty. Anyway! He brought up a valid point, he said:

"77 virgins, every man thinks of a 16-17yr old lush body, yumyum. BUT! It could also be an 85yr old granny who just never got around to it, you know!"

Side replying to the side reply: Seventy seven 85 years old women sounds like the right retribution for suicide bombers.

I don't think I would...that would come under the heading in my own personal book of ethics as "You stay out of my sand box and I'll stay out of yours." All things being equal, I think that there would be more despair, both in the negative and positive aspects. Consider the suicide bombers that had something so dearly they believed in and their reactions. Already angry in the name of God, I don't think taking away their God would diffuse their anger. Also,I don't think that loss of God would necessarily lead to loss of good deeds. Consider those that do not believe in the existence of God. They have an internal ethical framework personal to them.
I just think that sharing that knowledge would be any more productive for society.

Sorry about the rough...thinking on my feet response!

Somebody said: "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things -- that takes religion." that pretty much answers the question in my view....

Hi,

I am not a religious person, not at all in fact, but IF I could disprove the existence of God, I wouldn't. An act like that wouldn't serve any positive purpose, but would probably prove to be very disruptive to society. And I am convinced that "organized religions" would not hesitate very long to discredit (or worse) anyone that would bring such proof.

Regards, Ko

I would like to know, hell it wouldn’t change my spiritual path much if we are just talking about deities and even if it did then I wouldn’t still fear death. Oblivion bothers me quite a bit, but it isn’t the worse thing that can happen.

As for the whole moral question, that crime would rise. There has, for a long period of time, been the misconception that social morality comes from a religion base. Yet there are many, many, cases of societies that have functioned (Some far better then westernized ones) without religion as their base of morals. Many documents have been written on systems of moral belief that don’t require one to have a belief in a deity to follow and many people already follow the rules of social morality without religion belief.

Problem is, it would be used as an excuse and many disappointed and depressed individuals would flock to this excuse just to vent their anger and emotions. Social order would cease to exist, not because the lack of a deity but because people would feel emotionally unstable and many would exploit this for their own personal gain.

There are religions (or ethical systems) especially in Asia that are not so concerned with God, Buddha for example said something like "we should abandon the heresy of worshipping God and of praying to him. We should stops all speculation and vain talk about such matters and practice good so that good may result from our good deeds."

I also believe that a surprisingly large percentage of population is agnostico-atheistic or they don't care too much about God (or a specific God) so clearly that revelation would not have much effect on those people. I think these people are marginalized and are afraid to show their beliefs (or lack of them) because they would be discriminated against. I also think that morality is not based on religion and is probably an evolutionary trait and result of living in a society so it wouldn't dissipate if the religion would cease to exist.

Take for example the 10 Commandments, eliminate the ones that are related to God directly and see that the rest are most likely coded in the civilian law and present in other society that have different beliefs or even no theistic believes: to not kill, to not steal, etc are more related to living in a society than to a perceived wish of a God. (as a side-remark: notice how religious extremists are able to easily step aside such mere "details" as the "do not kill" commandment)

Moreover, I think this is the biggest lie and manipulation of the religion, the self-justification for its need "if it weren't for religion, we'd live like animals" There have been societies without religion, or better said without belief in God(s) and they were not living "like animals".

Very true. Taoism in its true form is the same way. And even Hinduism, despite an apparent proliferation of deities, don't put those deities in the same position as the Western traditions do with god. For them, deities exist within this world; they are not part of the Ultimate Reality, and are only convienient ways for people to reach the ultimate reality.

As for the question at hand... even if it were possible to totally disprove god, I am convinced that it would not make a lick of difference. Faith and reason are on two totally different planes, and I've seen numerous occasions in human history where believers can look irrefutable evidence head on and still cling to their faith. (The ridiculous Intelligent Design movement is clear evidence of this.) So, I might do that, but I'm positive I would be doing it in vain.

I totally agree with you that that would be futile, but I think the assumption from the start of this discussion was that you could prove (or convince people), therefore the question is more like "is the religion useful or not" (disregarding the existence of God). I personally already stated that the usefulness of religion is a manipulation, I don't belive many people behave nicely because of religion and there are many people that behave BAD especially because of the religion, I think all in all humanity wouldl be better off without religion, getting back to that point: "If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities."

OK, I want to add this to the discussion, this is what Dawkins comments about this question that he got quite often while popularizing his book "God Delusion"

Excerpt from "I'm an atheist, BUT . . ." by Richard-Dawkins
"I'm an atheist, but people need religion. What are you going to put in its place? How are you going to comfort the bereaved? How are you going to fill the need?"

Absolutely.

People have a concept of what is "right" and what is "wrong" that comes inherit to human nature. Some people just choose to ignore it, and go off to live lives of crime and theivery. But one should never overlook the amount of chaos and destruction that has stemmed from "crusades" and "holy wars" throughout the history of mankind.

Even now, many people who fight think they are living up to the ideals of their holy texts. As can be seen in the various messages sent between such characters as Zarqawi and bin Laden in the past suggest that they believe they are doing the bidding of "Allah", and that He will favor them because they are "carrying out His wishes".

To disprove people the existence of God would negate anything that anyone could claim regarding their own religious superiority and the fighting that stems from one group thinking another group is "evil". Be it Pro-*test*-('")ant vs. Catholic or Muslim vs. Judaism, Christianity vs. Satanism... all of it would be erased.

I don't believe that people would be any more subject to criminal lives or the like as a result of someone proving that God doesn't exist. Honestly, I believe it is people's folly in believing they can interpret the mind of an Infinite Power, determining what said Power wants and doesn't want... what it likes and what it doesn't like... that causes problems to begin with.

I don't believe in "God"... not as others would believe in Him. I don't believe in "Heaven after life". I personally have no feelings of my life being rewarded or punished when I die based on the actions that I take while I am alive. Still.. I try to live a just life, and I try to make good decisions. Even though sometimes I fail, I struggle constantly to do what is "right"... not because some dusty old book written 2000 years ago tells me that I should... but because I simply know what is "right" and try my hardest to live up to it.

It's not about "Faith". It's about "humanity".


Gandalf

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