Spawned by my conversations with Adrian I figured this is important enough to have its own thread even though it is likely that only he and I will be talking about it… comes on peoples.

Personally I have never viewed the UN as any sort of democratic ‘problem solving’ body. It has never worked; from the moment it was created from the remains of the failed League of Nations it has been nothing more then a political tool for the big five. These five where implemental in producing the UN and have run the organization without any care for the world, democratic opinion or otherwise. They have shaped it from the start for their own political purposes.

It has been rare for anyone of these five to back away from a position simply because of world pressure generated from the UN. Each one operates outside of the UN for its own ends, illegally and immorally when those ends contradict the UN position on something. Yet they know there is no fear of punishment above a harsh word. Even the few times one of the big five has backed down have been because of diplomatic pressure by another member of the big five. Diplomatic pressure that existed without the UN having any say in it anyway…

The UN is just way to put a legitimate face on illegitimate actions that the big five carry out regardless of the rest of the world. Till they lose their veto powers, and no country should have the power to veto the rest of the world, the UN will always be powerless to stop any real conflict in the world that one of the big five is intent on exploiting for its own ends. Of course should that happen, should one of the big five lose it’s power to veto and control the UN, they would just laves and the UN will go the same way as the league.

What makes me laugh though is how some people in the US view the UN as some sort of world government, one that is somehow controlling the US government and not vice versa. That with every motion that passes the US becomes more and more entangled in laws that it, like a good boy, follows faithfully. They completely ignore the fact the US has always refused to sign onto international laws that it didn’t sponsor, vetoed attempts to bring nations in line with international law, and otherwise acted as a rogue state when it comes to the ‘world government.’

Also I laugh at those whom bitch whenever the UN has the balls to try and pass something that impacts the US’s plans, or that of an ally, even though the US just vetos it anyway. Of course they complain the loudest when the UN actually stands up and blocks a motion that the US so desperately wants to passed, often just to put that legitimate face on an immoral action.

They want the US to pull out of the UN over the fact it won’t blindly follow 100% of the time.

Seeing the US doesn’t even pay its dues and gets to keep, and overly exercise, its veto power I am sure many other nations in the world want the US to pull out of the UN too!

Personally… I think the UN could have been one of the grea-*test*-('") bodies on this earth, capable of doing much more good in the world then it actually has. Yet the structure of it is completely flawed, based around a period where the big five wanted nothing more then a body to rubber stamp its actions and ensured that body would be truly powerless. Remove the veto from them and have no country veto. Then maybe require nations to give supplies and personal, as opposed to just money and volunteers, so the UN can actually do even more good then what they do.

And yes people do seem quite willing to forget easily the humanitarian missions the UN does every year. As well as the peacekeepers who have been stationed all over the world to prevent further conflicts. With the regulations, vetos and other things in place I am not surprised they focus on the failures other then the success, the systems has ensured they can never be successful more then a tiny percent of the time.

I pretty much agree with everything you said, however one would wonder if there would be no veto and if UN would vote something against US, or Russian, or China's interest, would anyone be able to implement that decision? Heck UN in not able to implement such decisions against countries like North Korea!

Honestly?

No… It is one of those ‘problems’ which you twist and turn and try to figure out but the simple fact is there is no good answer. The US, Russia, Europe, China and to a lesser extent these days Brittan are all countries that are too large and powerful to really control. It was this reason they where given the veto in the first place, a sort of ‘reward’ for joining the UN and swearing they would obey international law. (HA)

If a ruling went against them which they couldn’t veto, and it was apparent the other four where not willing to go to war over it, then they would just flaunt their ability to break such a ruling and get away with it. Worse comes to worse they would withdraw their support, end the treaties signed under the UN, and give the rest of the world a very large finger in the process.

All because currently there isn’t anything any other nation can do against one of the big five without the support of another super-power.

I would only opt for the removal of veto power.

I mean, if all nations vote against something and the US vetos that vote, the US gets its way. What use IS it to have a UN then?

They went into Iraq without permission, just because they can in the current situation.

Though I wonder.. what would the UN be able to do were the US NOT to have that veto power anymore and invade a country against the UNs will?




Edit: that is what you get for posting after reading everything. Answer is above.

One possible solution would be to limit somehow the veto power, have it only for extreme circumstances (such as: I'm leaving UN if you adopt this resolution) I don't know how to do it, but I'm only saying that veto makes sense, if you want a country like US or Russia in UN you need to give them more power than Zimbabwe or Andorra.

Something else: does the USA really NEED the UN? Sure doesn't look like it to me, so why are they staying in, they do what they want anyway?